Curse

Cybah · Oct 02, 2006, 05:43 PM // 17:43

Quote:

The PvP character screen allows you to pick your perfect stat equipment. If you want a vanity skin *gasp* you might have to work a tad harder for it.

exactly my words. you all dont wanna work for it.

Clawdius_Talonious · Oct 02, 2006, 05:49 PM // 17:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoenix Ex

There's no way those people can nab up the combined amount that all casual and middle class people are gonna put up on the auction house, considering GW has 2 million copies sold. So all people has to do is to wait a bit for someone to put up a cheap item.

Perhaps so, but Guild Wars has over 2 million copies of both Factions and Prophecies sold worldwide, I'm rather sure that that includes all of us that merged our accounts. I'm not sure if the going rate for items in the Euro servers, or the Taiwanese servers, etc etc etc is the same as the going rate in America (fairly sure it isn't), so would this auction house tie together all of the servers, or would it be seperated into the same zones as our player accounts? If so, that's fewer than "millions" of players, and who knows what sort of notification of item availability would be given to players along with this theoretical auction house... But I digress, I mearly meant to point out that no change can be accurately gauged until it's been implemented.

leprekan · Oct 02, 2006, 05:50 PM // 17:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeathByAmor

I am one of the more "rich" hardcore players that is 100% behind this. I love the idea. You are right though it is mostly the rich that are against it. They claim they are "looking out for the game" but that is just a flat faced lie. They are covering their investments. I would be in the same boat as them, but I know having played for so long that the economy of this game should have NEVER gotten to this point 100k + xx and xxx ectos for weapons is just unbelievably insane. Can you imagine equipping your heros with your favorite weapons with prices at 100k + 100 ectos for a Brute Sword? Gimme a damn break.

You haven't played long enough then ... there has always been 100k + items. Sorry, but yes it is looking out for the game. I will still be rich as will akh and lem (insert favorite wealthy person) this will only wipe out the middle class of guild wars. You have stated in prior posts that you are holding a lot of weapons and upgrades to salvage to **gasp** make a quick profit when this comes out. You are looking out for YOU not the long term life of the game. Things are actually cheaper now than they were a year ago. I am not sure what game you have been playing.

SirShadowrunner · Oct 02, 2006, 05:55 PM // 17:55

I wonder if they are going to add more modifers to the game than we currently have,
seems to makes sense cause everyone is saving up what they think is going to happen,
so stands to reason that we are going to be surprised!!!!!!!

This is kind of like when Green weapons were added alot of ppl were mad and alot
were happy, bottom line is some ppl will always want the newest skin but with three
chapters of different skinned weapons to choose from not everyone is, I still get
comments on my Tyria collectors air-staff, which I think is still one the nicest looking
staffs in the game.

DeathByAmor · Oct 02, 2006, 06:05 PM // 18:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by leprekan

You haven't played long enough then ... there has always been 100k + items. Sorry, but yes it is looking out for the game. I will still be rich as will akh and lem (insert favorite wealthy person) this will only wipe out the middle class of guild wars. You have stated in prior posts that you are holding a lot of weapons and upgrades to salvage to **gasp** make a quick profit when this comes out. You are looking out for YOU not the long term life of the game. Things are actually cheaper now than they were a year ago. I am not sure what game you have been playing.

leprekan i am tired of your crap. please stop singling me out. as far as me holding items that is what ANY smart player would do in the situation. im buying up now so i don't have to pay an arm and a leg later. plus any that i have left over i can distribute to guildies. it is morons like you that get on these forums and try to act like you are hot shit and talk down to people that make discussions like these completely unbearable. i hope admins are watching this thread cause this is the 3rd god damned time you have singled me out. you are seriously barking up the wrong tree. hopefully this update will come out and in the update notes it will say haha to all the rich elitist bitches especially leprekan.

DeathByAmor · Oct 02, 2006, 06:07 PM // 18:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by leprekan

The PvP character screen allows you to pick your perfect stat equipment. If you want a vanity skin *gasp* you might have to work a tad harder for it. There are MANY rich pvpers before you go there. The drop system already favors the casual gamer .. hardcore people get the old flag system.

If the update works out so that shields can be modded then what? Whoop de doo people will be able to have cool weapons on the pvp characters. Your sarcastic remarks are not needed and just makes everyone hate you. TY for reassuring everyone that you are a little elitist punk troll.

Clawdius_Talonious · Oct 02, 2006, 06:09 PM // 18:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lynnrose

On the other hand, some of the green items that are good don't have counterparts available to them in the PvP creation screen.

I agree that that is a problem, I think anything available to PVE characters should be available to people who make PVP only characters, as far as req and stats go.

Quote:

Originally Posted by leprekan

You haven't played long enough then ... there has always been 100k + items.

Intriguing concept, I've been playing since release and I watched the market grow, a friend of mine still has a max crystalline longsword that he purchased for 5k just after release before their rarity was known. It took time for people to amass the wealth to throw around 100k+__ecto so don't talk about what there "Always" was, I watched the market inflate and deflate as it has over the last seventeen months, it's been an interesting roller coaster ride.

ChildeOfMalkav · Oct 02, 2006, 06:13 PM // 18:13

All you against this new change are wasting your time arguing about this since none of you have brought up any good reason why this shouldnt be implemented. Bottomline is that this change gives everyone a lot more options and flexibility to build their weapons. Who the hell cares about prices plummeting or whatnot when an improvement in the system is far more valuable?

leprekan · Oct 02, 2006, 06:23 PM // 18:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeathByAmor

leprekan i am tired of your crap. please stop singling me out. as far as me holding items that is what ANY smart player would do in the situation. im buying up now so i don't have to pay an arm and a leg later. plus any that i have left over i can distribute to guildies. it is morons like you that get on these forums and try to act like you are hot shit and talk down to people that make discussions like these completely unbearable. i hope admins are watching this thread cause this is the 3rd god damned time you have singled me out. you are seriously barking up the wrong tree. hopefully this update will come out and in the update notes it will say haha to all the rich elitist bitches especially leprekan.

If you contradict yourself and someone points it out ... I don't think you are being picked on. Please keep pixel threats to a minimum. I am still on this thread not to "troll" look at my posting history. I am here because I said NOTHING during the prior Anet tweaks that went wrong. I am hardly "elitist" I am arguing for the middle class. I have a horde of perfects to salvage as well this will only make ME more money.

Clawd,

I correct myself it took about 3-4 weeks for prices to go up where they have been ever since.

DeathByAmor · Oct 02, 2006, 06:24 PM // 18:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChildeOfMalkav

All you against this new change are wasting your time arguing about this since none of you have brought up any good reason why this shouldnt be implemented. Bottomline is that this change gives everyone a lot more options and flexibility to build their weapons. Who the hell cares about prices plummeting or whatnot when an improvement in the system is far more valuable?

It really is a waste of time. The change is good for the game and its players PERIOD. It is good for us even without the concept of heros. The heros just doubly justify it. Prices WILL NOT tumble. They will adjust like anything else. They will just come to a more acceptable general price. Req 8 15^50 Crystallines will drop a bit; probably down to the 800k-1mill range. That is a good price for those. They will still be the elite weapon of choice.

DeathByAmor · Oct 02, 2006, 06:27 PM // 18:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by leprekan

If you contradict yourself and someone points it out ... I don't think you are being picked on. Please keep pixel threats to a minimum. I am still on this thread not to "troll" look at my posting history. I am here because I said NOTHING during the prior Anet tweaks that went wrong. I am hardly "elitist" I am arguing for the middle class. I have a horde of perfects to salvage as well this will only make ME more money.

Clawd,

I correct myself it took about 3-4 weeks for prices to go up where they have been ever since.

But you see I didn't at any point contradict myself. You are just not understanding the point I was trying to make. Tell me again if you actually care where I contradicted myself. Then I will carefully explain what I meant in the simplest terms I can muster. If then I am "still" contradicting myself then we can get an outside opinion and then we can end this.

Lynnrose · Oct 02, 2006, 06:44 PM // 18:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cybah

exactly my words. you all dont wanna work for it.

A game that bills itself as being low on grind shouldn't have any "work" component to it. That's the whole point.

tenryo · Oct 02, 2006, 06:55 PM // 18:55

Well here's my particular take on things. There are two general "factions" if you will, of players who play GW: the hardcore hero and the weekend warrior. The hardcore heroes invariably tend to have larger cash cofers than their weekend warrior counterparts for a very simple priciple: they play more, and hence reap greater gains.

In the vast majority of MMORPG's, the high end game, and virtually all of the game content besides its most basic components are tailored to the hardcore heroe's crowd. Take Everquest for example. Aside from the basic original game and perhaps its first two expansions, all subsequent raid and grind content was virtually exclusive to the lvl 65, well geared crowd.

GW, has, to a great extent, catered much more to the weekend warrior crowd. The blatant bias is evident by the total lack of "character advancement" opportunities in the game. Statwise, it is rediculously easy, especially with the advent of farmable dirt cheap greens, for weekend warriors *cough*noobs*cough* to be just as effective statistically as a player who has spent countless hours on end creating his character.

With character effectiveness a moot question, the last bastion that sets the avid, well connected, and skilled player apart from his lowly noobish counterparts is the presige inherent in his appearance. I see a warrior decked out in full FOW and weilding a crystalline and a gloom shield... and you bet I'd rather group him than the guy next to him cringing in his 1.5k droks droppings even though statistically they are the same tank.

I think, and I presume any truly avid guild wars payer will agree, that the game affords the weekend warrior with more than enough leverage to counterbalance their time imput vs the commitment invested from real players. 15^50 swords are already easily obtainable by anyone willing to spend 5k to craft one. Let me say this clearly: introducing salvagable or even transferrable inherent damage modifiers is a slap in the face to everyone who has ever put in time and honest effort to WORK, thats right, TOIL to be able to afford a rare skin or a low req. The rarity of our gear sets us apart from those who refuse to put in the effort necessary to obtain our status. I can accept that functionally, I am the same as the noob next to me trying to buy his victo's blade for 3k.. the same victo's blade I hand out go guildies for free. But I accept it because there is still something that distinguishes us: our appearance.

Sure, I'm all for letting everyone have fun and enjoy the game to its fullest. Everyone already can. Lets not lose sight of the fact, however, that many of us have worked very hard to get to where we are. All of us, rich or poor, have invested at least a certain amount of time to reach our present levels. To those who stand to lose from this change, I stand with you in firm opposition to the gutting of the GW economy and the communist wealth redistribution it envisions. To those of you who presently don't hold the lion's share of GW wealth I say this: don't you want something to work towards? You salivate now at the thought of being able to obtain cheaply a 15^50 crystalline, but you will realize, all too late, that if everyone can obtain it just as easily, it has no inherent worth. Things have worth in this game because they are hard to obtain and require effort to earn. Take away rarity and you take away our reason for effort, because honestly, if I just wanted to pvp, I'd be playing Counterstrike.

Cybah · Oct 02, 2006, 06:56 PM // 18:56

even in diablo1 you could not get a kings sword of haste easily. work here means: playing and/or trading

Clawdius_Talonious · Oct 02, 2006, 07:05 PM // 19:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lynnrose

A game that bills itself as being low on grind shouldn't have any "work" component to it. That's the whole point.

There is a reason for the whole unique weapon/rare weapon scheme. It's oft been said in this thread, that the reason greens were created is to give people max mods/weps with less grind. I agree with that concept, and I do think there should be some sort of reward for the player who puts more time and effort into the game. However, the point of the "No Grind" talk is not that there be nothing to do or that you can't "grind" if you choose to, it's that it is a choice. A player could play rarely and still thrash someone in the nicest/most expensive skins if they were more skilled than the other person. (However it's noteworthy IMO that someone who has invested the time to capture/unlock most elite skills and played through multiple character classes will have a distinct advantage for having invested this time in Guild Wars once Nightfall comes out, so the Hero vs Hero combat and the PVE aspects of Nightfall will lend an advantage to the player who's played more or payed for the Prophecies unlock packs)

Guild Wars was always meant to be about skill level more than time invested, there is nothing that 15k armor or a rare skinned weapon will do to make you a better player, it just makes your player look more unique. However I do think that the green weapons added to the game with unique reqs should have equivalents in the PVP character creation menu.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tenryo

You salivate now at the thought of being able to obtain cheaply a 15^50 crystalline, but you will realize, all too late, that if everyone can obtain it just as easily, it has no inherent worth. Things have worth in this game because they are hard to obtain and require effort to earn. Take away rarity and you take away our reason for effort

I don't see how the advent of POSSIBLE changes that MAY allow for the addition of 15^50 mods to crystalline swords and such means that every character in the game will have crystalline swords falling out of their ears. Explain how the rarest skins max damage will somehow become massively available? I doubt very seriously that the price of a max crystalline will ever be considered "cheap" to your casual player.

SlipknotOFA · Oct 02, 2006, 07:11 PM // 19:11

You all worry to much there are people dieing and wars going on anyways I trust anets decesion and I adpat pretty well if you cant adapt I suggest you quit playing this game isnt for you go play pokemon or something

elLOCOmutha · Oct 02, 2006, 07:14 PM // 19:14

Anet is looking toward keeping new players playing. Say goodbye to so called L33tism...all it does is frustrate the new player and then they stop playing and Anet loses money.

I have played since beta and payed high prices for the skins and stats I want...well guess what I wont have to in the near future.

I think Anet is investing in the future of this game and wants to see it continue to grow by not losing so many frustrated new players because of people that think they can charge HUGE ammounts of gold for items which is not attainable to new players.

It's a step in the right direction for the future of this game.

DeathByAmor · Oct 02, 2006, 07:16 PM // 19:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by tenryo

Well here's my particular take on things. There are two general "factions" if you will, of players who play GW: the hardcore hero and the weekend warrior. The hardcore heroes invariably tend to have larger cash cofers than their weekend warrior counterparts for a very simple priciple: they play more, and hence reap greater gains.

In the vast majority of MMORPG's, the high end game, and virtually all of the game content besides its most basic components are tailored to the hardcore heroe's crowd. Take Everquest for example. Aside from the basic original game and perhaps its first two expansions, all subsequent raid and grind content was virtually exclusive to the lvl 65, well geared crowd.

GW, has, to a great extent, catered much more to the weekend warrior crowd. The blatant bias is evident by the total lack of "character advancement" opportunities in the game. Statwise, it is rediculously easy, especially with the advent of farmable dirt cheap greens, for weekend warriors *cough*noobs*cough* to be just as effective statistically as a player who has spent countless hours on end creating his character.

With character effectiveness a moot question, the last bastion that sets the avid, well connected, and skilled player apart from his lowly noobish counterparts is the presige inherent in his appearance. I see a warrior decked out in full FOW and weilding a crystalline and a gloom shield... and you bet I'd rather group him than the guy next to him cringing in his 1.5k droks droppings even though statistically they are the same tank.

I think, and I presume any truly avid guild wars payer will agree, that the game affords the weekend warrior with more than enough leverage to counterbalance their time imput vs the commitment invested from real players. 15^50 swords are already easily obtainable by anyone willing to spend 5k to craft one. Let me say this clearly: introducing salvagable or even transferrable inherent damage modifiers is a slap in the face to everyone who has ever put in time and honest effort to WORK, thats right, TOIL to be able to afford a rare skin or a low req. The rarity of our gear sets us apart from those who refuse to put in the effort necessary to obtain our status. I can accept that functionally, I am the same as the noob next to me trying to buy his victo's blade for 3k.. the same victo's blade I hand out go guildies for free. But I accept it because there is still something that distinguishes us: our appearance.

Sure, I'm all for letting everyone have fun and enjoy the game to its fullest. Everyone already can. Lets not lose sight of the fact, however, that many of us have worked very hard to get to where we are. All of us, rich or poor, have invested at least a certain amount of time to reach our present levels. To those who stand to lose from this change, I stand with you in firm opposition to the gutting of the GW economy and the communist wealth redistribution it envisions. To those of you who presently don't hold the lion's share of GW wealth I say this: don't you want something to work towards? You salivate now at the thought of being able to obtain cheaply a 15^50 crystalline, but you will realize, all too late, that if everyone can obtain it just as easily, it has no inherent worth. Things have worth in this game because they are hard to obtain and require effort to earn. Take away rarity and you take away our reason for effort, because honestly, if I just wanted to pvp, I'd be playing Counterstrike.

You have a good argument as a whole, but what makes everyone think Crystallines will be dropping like candy? I of course already have my own personal crystalline that I use, but I have been searching for other gold req 8 crystallines for sale out there. There just aren't that many to be had at this time. That could be cause their owners are salivating at the release of this update or it could be cause their just really aren't many out there. I would go with the later. Sure people will be running around with perfect Oni blades and GPB's like crazy, but they already do. I just don't think there are enough of these super rare skins out there (with low reqs mind you) to make this a huge problem. I mean come on sure someone can have a crystalline sword with 15^50 now with a high req, but that does not make them leet imo. I only consider someone truly leet if they sport the Req 8 15^50 crystalline or dwarven that popped from the hoh chest for them. Just cause you can buy one doesn't make you leet in my book.

tenryo · Oct 02, 2006, 07:17 PM // 19:17

The idea behind the crystallines is that a large portion (the lion's share) of the cost of a 15^50 req 8 crystalline goes towards the fact that it is 15^50. A req 8 alone will only run you 100k plus some ecto, and a req 8 purp can be obtained for 100k flat or even under sometimes. (lets be honest, 100k is chump change... you can make it with a day of faction farming). Where does that extra 700 ectos worth of cost come from? Of course, from the fact that it's 15^50.

On that note, you might ask yourself WHY so many people want crystallines. Do they look cool? Personally I think they look marginally worse than the dubious longsword. Why, then, are they so sought after? They're in high demand simply because of their rarity. Having a crystalline is a status symbol: a huge sign on the front of your forehead that screams "I am not a noob". How much easier will be obtaining a req 8 clean crystalline be after the changes? Harder in fact I'd say, because demand will skyrocket for them. However, how much easier will obtaining a 15^50 req 8 be? much, much, much easier. And I say this even though I presently don't own a crystalline (did I mention they were ugly?). The price gap between that clean and the perfect is the mark of countless hours of work that really should be worth something. I haven't put those hours in. But someone out there has, and I think we should respect that accomplishment as well as respecting the hours I put in to obtain my somewhat less breathtaking gear.

Oh ya, I forgot to mention this: Am I elitist? you bet your malourished poor little arse I am. I'm elitist because I'm protecting my investments. Not my cash investment, which is presently going into buying runes and materials so I can increase my wealth in nightfall, but my TIME investment. Don't want to work for nice looking gear? I think thats too bad for you. I'll shed a tear for you someday when I'm excessively bored and picking my nose isn't an option. But I really think you should be glad enough that your gear has the same stats as mine and stop the peasant whining that mine looks better. Of COURSE mine looks better... it costs more. Its like whining that my Rolls looks better than your Chevy.

Here's a novel idea for those without: try working. You'd be surprised at the payout... even if you live off welfare in France!

btw: the "you" in the above paragraphs isn't precicely targeted at anyone in particular do please don't take offense

it is, rather, targeted at that collective presence of whining that seems to think things should be handed out for free. If you belong to that group and feel slighted by my comments... well, perhaps that was the intent.

DeathByAmor · Oct 02, 2006, 07:23 PM // 19:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by elLOCOmutha

Anet is looking toward keeping new players playing. Say goodbye to so called L33tism...all it does is frustrate the new player and then they stop playing and Anet loses money.

I have played since beta and payed high prices for the skins and stats I want...well guess what I wont have to in the near future.

I think Anet is investing in the future of this game and wants to see it continue to grow by not losing so many frustrated new players because of people that think they can charge HUGE ammounts of gold for items which is not attainable to new players.

It's a step in the right direction for the future of this game.

You and I see eye to eye on this. You and I are absolutely right and all those who oppose it are completely and profoundly wrong on this issue.